What if I don't want to be a "tuner"?

[Jtrjr]

Don't get me wrong, I've been tuning my scooters (American V-Twin motorcycles) for 30+ years. Times have certainly changed. It used to be changing a jet or tweaking a screw by half a turn. Not anymore, nowadays, you'd better have a laptop or an app to tune anything. I can't tune my newer scooters. I've tried but it gets way too technical for me. Used to be, check the spark plug, too dark, too rich, lean it out. Too light, too lean, richen it up a bit. I've got some screaming scoot's, up too 2077cc's with Nitrous Oxide!

Never have I had too worry about my "rates" or "pids", or worse yet "filters"! I may be way out of my league with this stuff. HTP (and others here) has some sort of electronics background and they get it. I don't! I just want to fly the daing (that's for you, Donnie B) thing! I get that manufacturers are trying to put a good tune into these things for "everyone" but what about "me"? I want the same tune that Mr. Steele, RaymonFPV, The RC Addict or Nurk has. I want to learn to fly to their level. Why don't these guys tell the manufacturers that they'll put up the tune before the release? I'd pay a couple of bucks just to get the right tune before I try to put the thing in the air! Betaflight should get a buck or two just to give us a good tune from the start.

I mentioned a couple of guys in the last paragraph, if you haven't watched the RC Addict fly, take a look. That kid (I won't post his name), gave me some serious one-on-one's many years ago and I'll be forever grateful. Same for Raymon, what a gem! And the dude can fly! He built me my first two frames. Just give us a tune guy's, I'm not and will never be a tuner!

Jerry

 

[rtkDarling]

I'm just gonna come out and say it: your tune is probably not very important if you're flying a 5 inch.

If your quad is vibrating a lot, or you're getting hot motors, maybe you need to fix your tune, but BF works pretty well straight out of the box. At the upper echelons of racing, maybe the tune matters some. Tune matters to me a lot because my aim of flying has always been to film; I got into FPV specifically to film with it. Tuning vibration out so we don't get jello on the Gopro footage is key in that case, as is tuning out as much propwash as possible. If you're just flying for fun though, it doesn't matter that much.

You can't just copy a tune for another rig (say Steele's tune) because quadcopters don't work that way. A tune is very specific to a quad, the motors, battery, weight, and even the props you're using.

BTW, Rates are NOT tune. Rates control the maximum rotational speeds the drone can achieve. Higher rates = a rig that turns and flips faster at maximum stick inflection. Setting rates for the way you fly is crucial, and that's a feeling thing that's up to you. Some people like to use the whole stick travel, some people like to move the sticks very little. To practice try and pull a flip or roll and stop at EXACTLY level with the horizon. If you constantly over-shoot, lower your rates. If you undershoot, raise your rates. You can do the same for yaw-spin, but we rarely do a 360 degree spin at full stick inflection.

The way to fly like the pros is the same way to get to Carnegie Hall : Practice

Steele will tell you that consistency is key. Same rates, same camera angle, same rig setup, same props, and practice practice practice.

I bet a lot of the guys you listed burn 30+ packs a day or more, and if they don't fly that much still, there was a point where they did for sure.

 

[Jtrjr]

Fantastic response! But so many packaged rigs are all the same ie: The Emax Tinyhawk II.

I've got rigs that have super "hot" motors straight out of the box. I've built quads that have super "hot" motors using BF 3 (point whatever) defaults many times. Maybe that has changed in the last few years. BTW, your skill level is way beyond anything that I posses at this point (I love you're vids!). I'm getting the jist that BF default PID's should be fairly good with all quads? You are a very good pilot, I want to fly like you do. Do you use stock PID's? I have been unable to understand the whole PID concept so changing anything is totally unpredictable.

So rates should be pretty much the same on all of my quads (I think I'm seeing this)? Remember, as I continue to say: "I'm trying to get an education", I'm not trying to cause any kind of confrontation. My goal is to become the best builder/pilot that I can be. I love to "fly" my quads but I feel very inadequate doing so. I feel like I'm not getting it as so many others are. Does that make sense?

I can take on a Hayabusa with my Harley and beat it because I'm a better rider and I'm pulling everything that I can from the bike. I've gotten so confused by all of the things that go into building a quad that I feel like my skills as a pilot are suffering. What do I need to do to be a better pilot?

Thanks so much for your reply.

Jerry

 

[Wayno52]

I fly just like me Steele ......oh no wait that's what I always hit.

 

[rtkDarling]

We don't really take anything confrontationally around here, just love talking shop.

I would say PIDs are more about getting rid of specific problems as you encounter them. What's really changed in the newer versions of BF is the filtering, which is a whole other animal. Basically all vibrations have a frequency, and filtering attempts to remove that noise by zeroing in on specific ranges of frequency. Some of this can be done by trial and error, but to do it effectively you really need to study a black-box log.

Rates can be the same between quads to start, but you might feel that some quads feel so different in the air, and that you change the rates a little to make them all "feel" more alike. Truth is, different builds are going to handle different anyway, especially different prop sizes. I switch between my 6 and my 4 right now, and it still takes me a pack to get used to each one after flying the other, and they have the same rates. The power to weight ratio is far different, and that's a HUGE part of the handling characteristics.

One thing I notice with you (something I fight pretty hard myself) is throttle management. What makes those boys look so good when they fly is they don't bob and much as you and I, and that's good throttle management. I like about 25% expo on my throttle, and I place the center on my hover point, so the throttle "softens" at exactly the spot I hover. That helps make the sweet spot bigger, and smooth the bob out. (You can turn on throttle% in your OSD, and take a note at your hover point )

The other thing to practice is purpose in direction. Now this is something that I feel defines a pilot: how do they choose where to go, and how to actually get there? Steele is a skateboarder (a lot of pilots are) so they're used to picking a line and seeing the tricks they can do in that line, and how to move through it in a purposeful way. Then, (and you don't see this part because they edit it out) they'll do multiple takes on that line until they like the result. A spot then becomes a series of lines, and after 20+ packs you can do a single take that makes you look like the man (hopefully) Drib does multiple takes like this, Steele is a bit more seat of the pants (and one of the best in the world IMO)

Steele picks a line by cramming as many tricks in a spot, and then going big with huge arches that slow the action down, while actually speeding the drone up. Drib is one of my favorite freestyle pilots because he "flies a camera". That means less flips that move so fast you can't see, Drib almost always has the camera motion going slow enough that you can see every frame. (unlike steel who will throw a rubics cube into a flip like nothing)

But the person I would point out to you is Skitzo. Skitzo has two modes: attached and unattached. When he's attached he's orbiting a specific object like a tree or a light, and even if he's not pointing right at it, his movement is speaking to that object. Then he'll "detach" and that movement is also a purposeful line. He rarely "looks around" or changes speed to take stock of his surroundings. He'll fly that line/arc until he meets another object to "attach" to. Once you see it you'll see it forever. This is what you should practice in your flying; it's that purposeful feeling that makes flights seem professional (for lack of a better word)

A last note, I'm using a Gopro 7 with hypersmooth for my latest work, and it does take a lot of the rough edges off. I use my GP5 to tune with because it shows the raw truth of my flying. I have improved in some ways, but I think my best freestyle session was about a year ago. I have made an effort to get back to my cinematic roots and cut the flippy-flippy stuff down a little bit because I feel there's very little public demand for it, it feels like pilots showing off for pilots (and it's made a lot of people sick when I show them my work) If I really want to use this tool as a cinematographer, it won't be crazy freestyle you know? How would it fit into a plot? Normal people get board of it after about 30 seconds I find.

Okay, that's a lot, I'll leave it there. Here's some Skitzo, you'll see what I mean

And here's my favorite freestyle session. Gopro5 too, no stabilization and no edits

 

[Wayno52]

Yeah, no doubt he is one of the greats for flow and great lines.
I would be happy with a poopteenth of that talent.
I really love watching Vik fpv too. Man he can rip.

 

[Jtrjr]

RTK,

What an inspiring and insightful response! Thank you so very much! Your explanation was so much more helpful than the many videos I've watched on YT! I will reread your post many times over just to keep a good perspective and continue my pursuit of an education. I struggle with understanding these things but you made it much clearer. Perhaps, you should post a few YT's on how to apply this application? I'll tell you one thing, I'd watch them! Thank you so very much for such an educated, layman sort of reply! I'm forever in your debt and I will try to apply your directions!

Jerry

 

[rtkDarling]

I appreciate that Jerry, and I was thinking about something you said today.

I can take on a Hayabusa with my Harley and beat it because I'm a better rider and I'm pulling everything that I can from the bike.

I used to ride a Monster 750, and I love a tight racing line. Racing a course might be a great way for you to practice. "Gates" can be anything that keep you low to the ground (and preferably won't destroy your rig), and you start thinking in inertia and lean. You'll get used to blipping the throttle to hug a turn. The new Tinyhawk 2 and the like make a perfect home racer, I don't know if you have a quad you can beat on...
Yeah man, set up a course and time yourself in the OSD

 

[Futuramille]

In the end, its really all about getting in "stick time"!
Build your own style! Have fun! push till you crash and your hands are shaking.